A big, burly guy was recently spotted browsing Sears’ women’s lingerie department at Park Place Mall. The guy, however, wasn’t browsing bras for his girlfriend. He was seeking something for himself.
My secret Park Place spy said the dude had a “manly face, Adam’s apple the size of an apple and a really bad wig.”
Not the Sears guy, but a participant in London's July 4 gay parade/AP Photo
So what. It’s still beautiful. The beauty, of course, is that Americans can dress how the heck they want anywhere they want.
Amost.
Crossdressing at church is another story. I recently researched the subject for one of my freelance assignments and found some actually consider it a sin.
Those against it use an Old Testament verse, Deuteronomy 22:5, to condemn the practice:
“The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God.”
As noted on the site RachelMiller.info. “These people use a literal interpretation of that single verse to automatically brand all male (but not female) cross-dressers as sinners in desperate need of repentance.
London's July 4 gay parade/AP Photo
“Women routinely wear ‘male’ clothing to church and no one calls them an abomination. Curiously, the Biblical prohibition is first levied towards women and then secondarily towards men. Rather an odd sequence unless the true meaning of the verse has more application to women than to men. It should also be noted that Jesus and His disciples wore what amounts to floor length dresses.”
“(Some) verses vilify seafood, allow slavery and command against a good haircut,” says site author Vanessa, who has been crossdressing for 25 years, about Lev 1:9, Lev 15:19-24, Lev 25:44, Lev 11:10 and Lev 19:27.
My research also taught me the first key to crossdressing at church is to find a congregation where it’s accepted. You don’t need mass to come to a halt so everyone can stop and stare.
The second is to be sensible. Just as women should not show up to church in hot pants and plunging necklines, neither should a guy. Especially if the latter exposes a hairy chest – or lingerie from Sears.
What do you think?
Have you ever seen a crossdresser at church? Was it a sensible outfit?
Have you ever crossdressed in church?
Do you have any crossdressing tips for the masses, pun intended?
Mornin’ Rynski! Yeah, I have a couple of tips:
1) Cover the adams apple-dead giveaway.
2) Sears is very brightly illuminated-might want to pick a more inconspicuous store, especially if you look like Arnold Schwarzenegger in a blouse, skirt and size 15 pumps.
3) Shop online.(my favorite) Spare all us parents from tying to explain ‘daddy, why does that man have boobies?’ Difficult to be delicate…not that there is anything wrong with that you understand…
Mornin’ RadMax – Good tips! Thanks for the input. Especially like the Adam’s apple one. Maybe a nice velvet ribbon around the neck, like Ester wore in the movie Orphan. How do you explain crossdressing to a kid?
I actually tried one time, don’t think I did a very good job of it…’ask your mother.’
ha! isn’t that ALWAYS the old standby….
“Maybe a nice velvet ribbon around the neck”…like lipstick on a pig Rynski-some guys were just not cut out to be a hot chick…
Yes, I’ll agree with that one. Yet I have seen others that are more beautiful than, say, Kate Jackson!
THAT’S a frightening prospect…PS-Kate Jackson? Noooooo way!
I guess this is what cross dressing leads to, ultimately.
http://homepage.mac.com/leffert/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2003-07-08%2021.54.42%20-0700/Image-1834BD02B1C911D7.jpg
HA! Ado-imagine waking up next to that in the morning! Gotta stop drinkin’ that everclear….
BTW-You saw that horrible flick? I bet the bum took you to a drive-in. Did you stay for the whole thing? Did you actually enjoy that waste of celluloid? Is this the same village idiot who took you to the death trap and the graveyard? Have I asked enough questions yet? Good thing he knows how to bar-b-que, I see no other redeeming qualities in this padded cell refugee…
dearest RadMax – if you know the ORPHAN flick is so horrible, that must mean you saw it, too, no? hahahhahahah
Yeah, I’m sorry to say. More fun making fun of it than actually following the convoluted plot…some pretty creepy undertones in this stinker too.
I always just told my kids when they were little that even though everyone is different (crossdressing, for example) we are all the same as far as having feelings and it’s never good to hurt someone’s feelings just because they seem different to us.
Little kids will stare at everything that they don’t get; people in a wheelchair, someone who’s attire is different because of their country or religion, etc.
That approach seems like it ought to be a no-brainer, but, unfortunately, it is not.
By the way azmouse, I always appreciated that, on the old TC story comments, you were always respectful to everyone, no matter how far their views diverged from your own. Civility too should be a no-brainer, but at times in some it seems in rather short supply (not speaking of here, of course).
koreyk-
Hello. Thank you for what you said. I honestly do respect people’s feelings and opinions. What was your name on the old TC?
I used Korey K. I signed up the same way here, but the system took away the caps and space.
Well hello! That actually does ring a bell. Sad, we always remember the mean people’s names…lol
Great to see you on here. I have allot of fun piping in here.
I had a question for you, you’re kids grow up they get into high school and come home one day dressed like the opposite sex (not for laughs either). Now be honest, what would you tell them?
I’d tell them not to borrow any of my favorite clothes without asking first.
ha ha, don’t worry kids never like their parents clothes!
yeah, you’re right!
Hi Steve-
I never dealt with that, although my middle child (boy, now 21) went through the black nail polish and occasional guy-liner thing in middle school…more that gothic look, and he had 8 inch liberty spikes ! (I have pictures!)
I thought it was fine, and the look came and went.
Well, OK but that’s not really cross dressing just testing the waters and seeing where you fit in.
True, but it’s as close as I’ve come, as a parent, so I threw it in there. lol
Happy Monday, buy the way!
‘by’ the way…MORE COFFEE!
Happy Monday to you, too, AZMouse!…and yes, more coffeeeeeeeeee!
Ryn-
Maybe the Pope is the biggest cross-dresser of all time?
“How dare you wear a robe to preside
How dare you cover your head to hide
Your face from God
How dare you smile from behind your beard
To hide the fact your heart’s afeared,
And wave your rod
How dare you be the one to assess
Me, in this God-forsaken mess
You, a man, in a purple dress
A man in a purple dress” – Pete Townsend
Hi Eric – perfect Townsend quote! You know your music – P.S. the Prince album rocks! thanks!
Pete Townsend, a true poet and musical genius.
Why would someone cross dress? My guess is to get attention, in church and really in everyday life Jesus Christ deserves the attention not me me me. If a cross dresser loooks at things from that perspective maybe they’ll reconsider doing it.
Why would someone drive an enormous pick-up elevated several feet off the ground? Why would someone have hubcaps on their car that keep spinning after the car stops? Why would someone believe in a supernatural cult with its origins in a mud hut in the desert?
My group is better than yours.
Give me cross-dressers and spare me from religion.
I have ALWAYS wondered about those still-moving hubcaps…they make me dizzy!!!
Awfully tempting Rynski…but I hear you are going to learn to shoot. 🙂
you betcha, RadMax – and you betcha you better watch your step! haha.
Who said anything about religion? A Christian has the freedom to do pretty much what they want to, we try to follow the civil law as best as we can otherwise you end up in jail. We try to do what God wants us to do to please Him not to follow some religous regiment but you wouldn’t understand that. As for a Christian the Bible is our authoritative written letter from God showing us who He is and what pleases Him, we do what we do out of love because He died for me so I could live. When a Christian does something they can go to 1 John 5:17 “All unrighteousness is sin: ” so you ask yourself “is it right?”
Do you want to get saved?
You were the one who brought up the fiction of Hay-Seuss Crisco. In the long history of the world there have been thousands, if not ten of thousands, of mystical beliefs in the supernatural (aka religions). They have come and gone; yours will go too. Of course, looking back, it seems more reasonable for people to whom the wheel was a marvel to abandon rationality in favor of superstition. Today, it just seems a little sad.
Is that you’re picture? You look a little old.
You don’t even realize it but you’re religous, you believe in something that there’s no proof of. My belief has eye witnesses.
For some reason “The Lumberjack Song” keeps running through my head.
What is that song?? Tell me the words.
It’s an old Monty Python bit.
The first verse begins with the lumberjack recounting the manly duties of his job. Each subsequent verse reveals a little more of his…uh, shall we say… tendencies.
“I cut down trees. I skip and jump. I like to press wild flowers. I put on women’s clothing And hang around in bars.”
Here’s a youtube link from Monty Python Live at the Hollywood Bowl:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clPYfaTvHT0
And, here’s the link to the original, which segues out of “The Homicidal Barber” skit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xToPCaNxaow
Thank you.
It looks like men will continue to dress effeminate and women will continue to dress masculine until it will be considered cross dressing for a man to wear pants, a shirt and a tie.
I did see a man wearing a kilt in church (with army boots) but I guess it’s a skirt for men so that wouldn’t be considered cross dressing just bad taste?
Back-up!!!! I went to the Celtic Festival last weekend in Flagstaff (Ryn wrote about it) My 16 year old son wore his kilt. It’s very manly and not at all in bad taste. A man of certain heritages wearing a kilt is very dressy, actually. They are extremely expensive to purchase and I think very suitable for church.
Maybe you should try one, Steve. Are you ‘built for a kilt’? LOL
Without even knowing it, you have made my day, azmouse. Your mention of kilts led me to a mental image of myself wearing one. Hilarious!
Probably SEXY leftfield!!!
I’ve yet to see a guy, any age, not look good in a kilt.
Since you like guys in kilts, and I’m on a song kick, check this out.
The Scotsman (aka The Drunken Scotsman), by Mike Cross:
http://www.guntheranderson.com/v/data/thescots.htm
Cross basically took an old and mildly risque joke and set it to music. It’s been covered by a number of artists.
“Sexy” is not exactly how I imagined myself. More like Pee Wee Hermanesque.
Oh I guess I should have mentioned that it (the kilt) was plaid with a stripe shirt!
Plaid and stripes maybe not so good, but the kilt, very hot!
Kilts are awesome on most guys. AZMouse’s son wore one wonderfully, too – did he meet those two girls again at the Celtic Fest?
But one must exercise extreme caution, as Steve pointed out, when mixing plaid with stripes. It can be done with just the right touch if the colors are in the same color family.
Gee Ryn, I have to send you those pics! He met two celtic dancers this time.
Send away – can’t wait to see ’em!
Is it possible to cross dress with kilts? Don’t the women kilts look the same as the men? How would you know if you were a Scottman cross dresssing?
Really, I don’t see the point in cross dressing at all. We are what we are, and cross dressing don’t change that. Actually nothing at all will ever change those little X & Y chromosome patterns we were born with. Not putting on a dress, not having your male works removed & taking female hormones to grow boobs, nothing. Those same X & Y chromosomes will still be present in every last cell in the body, no matter what you may do to deface and alter that body. IMO, it all seems to boil down to an inability to accept ourselves for what we are. Which after digressing, brings me back to my original statement, I don’t see the point in cross dressing at all. I doubt that there is a valid one, other than what we see in carnival and freak shows. Entertainment? Well perhaps, if that’s yer thing. Different strokes …
Gender indentification, according to the medical profession, is something that can be at odds with our genetic gender assignment.
Nice psychobabble, but it won’t change anyone’s X & Y chromosome pattern, will it?
If someone is at odds with who they are, they should be talkin’ to a shrink because they sound like very sick puppies to me.
Hey Rynski,
Thanks for your thoughtful post and for referencing Crossdresser Heaven. Religion and crossdressing definity don’t mix well in the mainstream. There are some church’s that have a more open view towards crossdressers and the transgendered, but it’s not the norm. Crossdressers live with shame most of their lives, many commit suicide because of the guilt they receive from society and from church.
It’s a blessing that we are able to wear what we want in this country. I think it’s a shame that an instituition dedicated to providing comfort and shelter would turn away so many who are in desperate need of love.
Many crossdressers have asked themselves why they crossdress, to your post Ado. It’s hard to describe the reasons. After crossdressing for 25 years I’m still no closer to understanding fully why I do it. I know that when I present as a woman I feel whole. As if a musical note that once once out of tune is now in harmony.
I see a few readers have commented with questions. Feel free to write, I’ll check back now and then and answer to the best of my ability.
Hugs,
Vanessa
Vanessa,
Thanks for much for chiming in – and creating a website with so much useful information on the topic. I’m sure it’s helped a lot of folks with many questions and concerns they may have.
Also kudos for being courageous enough to be you.
I be quoting myself on this one… “IMO, it all seems to boil down to an inability to accept ourselves for what we are.”
Hi Ado,
Thanks for your input, but I would argue the opposite – it’s a full ability to be bold enough to be who were are, regardless of any bs we get from others.
Ski, I believe Popeye got it right when he said, “I yam wat I yam…”.
Popeye can be so poetic!
I wish Hitler and Pol Pot, to name a couple, had been unable to accept themselves for what they were.
And I’m glad Frederick Douglas and Malcom X did not accept themselves for who they were.
yes, living up to one’s full potential can be a scary thing.
Pol Pot, Saloth Sar or Minh Hai ? That leader of the Cambodian communist movement? Umm, didn’t I hear you identify yourself as a fellow comrade, a communist yourself ? What’s happening to party unity comrade Lefty ?
And what has any of this to do with someone accepting their genetic makeup ? Or are you maintaining that Hitler, Pol Pot, Frederick Douglas and Malcom X engaged in cross dressing ? What any of them happened to be racially, politically or socially, has zero to do with them accepting the simple fact of their X & Y chromosome combination. X & Y chromosome patterns are not known to cause political preferences in humans or have anything to do with I.Q. levels or the drive and desire to become successful at anything. I believe the inference in my post was to simply accept the fact you have either a male set of XY chromosomes, or a female set of XX. There is absolutely nothing anyone can do to alter this fact of life. It is present in every cell in their body. Accept it. There is no other option. Cross dressing won’t change basic biological fact.
leftfield-
Even Pee Wee would rock a kilt!
Well of course you are gonna get caught at church if you cross dress. Be like the pastors and preists and just pretend you are straight. No one ever suspects them until they get caught.